Policing the Police!
Good Morning Citizens!
Nothing is more valuable to people than their own safety. In fact people are so obsessed with safety, they're willing to give up quite a bit of freedom just to feel as though they are safe from all the "bad things" and "evil doers" of the world. The government creates laws to increase the level of safety of its citizens and empowers police officers to enforce those laws. Unfortunately, with great power comes great responsibility... and sometimes an enhanced sense of ego and self-worth. Often times, those in power are brainwashed into thinking that they are more important than other citizens and that they are above the laws they enforce.
For example:
"When any law enforcement officer tells you to do something or not to do something, you do exactly what you're told," Rolon said. "If you do something different, you're in violation. ... I'm not one of your kids. I'm not one of your homies. I'm not one of your friends. I am not afraid of any one of you or all of you put together. And if you want to play with me I will play back...And law enforcement officers always win." - Officer Rolon of the St. Petersburg PD, lecturing a school bus full of kids ( http://www.sptimes.com/2005/11/30/Tampabay/Handcuffs_on_13_year_.shtml )
Today's topic raises the question of "Who's policing the police?"
From beating Rodney King's ass to little kindergarteners being thrown in cuffs, when is enough, enough? What kind of shitty psych evaluations are these departments using, and furthermore what kind of "tough guy, bully" culture is living in the law enforcement agencies of our country?
My main questions are:
What percentage of law enforcement are ex-military? And, if a large percentage (my assumption), is the "military" mindset really appropriate when dealing with civilians? children? Granted all police officers must receive police academy training, however, does the "yahoo cowboy" military culture still pervade the culture of law enforcement?
Are the issues of police corruption, abuse of power, and militancy something that we should be concerned with? Or, is it only a handful of bad seeds within random departments that the media sensationalizes just to sell stories? I guess if it is the latter, then how many bad seeds are acceptable in a occupation whose purpose is to "serve and protect the people", not themselves?
I turn it over to the minds that be....
Nothing is more valuable to people than their own safety. In fact people are so obsessed with safety, they're willing to give up quite a bit of freedom just to feel as though they are safe from all the "bad things" and "evil doers" of the world. The government creates laws to increase the level of safety of its citizens and empowers police officers to enforce those laws. Unfortunately, with great power comes great responsibility... and sometimes an enhanced sense of ego and self-worth. Often times, those in power are brainwashed into thinking that they are more important than other citizens and that they are above the laws they enforce.
For example:
"When any law enforcement officer tells you to do something or not to do something, you do exactly what you're told," Rolon said. "If you do something different, you're in violation. ... I'm not one of your kids. I'm not one of your homies. I'm not one of your friends. I am not afraid of any one of you or all of you put together. And if you want to play with me I will play back...And law enforcement officers always win." - Officer Rolon of the St. Petersburg PD, lecturing a school bus full of kids ( http://www.sptimes.com/2005/11/30/Tampabay/Handcuffs_on_13_year_.shtml )
Today's topic raises the question of "Who's policing the police?"
From beating Rodney King's ass to little kindergarteners being thrown in cuffs, when is enough, enough? What kind of shitty psych evaluations are these departments using, and furthermore what kind of "tough guy, bully" culture is living in the law enforcement agencies of our country?
My main questions are:
What percentage of law enforcement are ex-military? And, if a large percentage (my assumption), is the "military" mindset really appropriate when dealing with civilians? children? Granted all police officers must receive police academy training, however, does the "yahoo cowboy" military culture still pervade the culture of law enforcement?
Are the issues of police corruption, abuse of power, and militancy something that we should be concerned with? Or, is it only a handful of bad seeds within random departments that the media sensationalizes just to sell stories? I guess if it is the latter, then how many bad seeds are acceptable in a occupation whose purpose is to "serve and protect the people", not themselves?
I turn it over to the minds that be....
posted by Don the "Head Chimp" at
10:08 AM
9 Comments:
I don't know the facts but I would guess that the average police (beat officer) salary is about 15 an hour. These are not the brightest people on the planet. I know 2 police officers personally and they are both ex military. The first one, was a freak of nature who really enjoyed beating the crap out of people (including my sister). The second seems like a nice guy, but drinks more than anyone I've ever seen before. He too enjoys the ass kicking. These people are a nessicary evil. Some people do need protection and I'm not willing to do it. Those of us that are smarter/stronger than the average bear don't need protecting. However there is no way to distiguish between the two. Cops suck, but I'm glad they are around when the weak need them.
By
Anonymous, at 12:01 PM
In a lot of cases, you have to remember, there is no group that is "all good" or "all bad". There are some bad seeds here and there. As for who polices the police...well, the police. Of course they are not automatically blamed, but, eventually, they will be..if they commit the crime. They aren't just protected by the department when that happens.
It's wrong to handcuff a 13 year old to a bus rail. However, that's one cop amongst dozens in that city. Think of any group -- lawyers, doctors, teachers, and there are bound to be a few who need to be weeded out. It isn't the profession, it's people in general.
I don't know about the military. Amber is in the military, and when she gets out, she has top-security clearance from the government..not to mention will be working with computers..completely higher level than your average cop. I have no idea on the stats of police from the military.. I don't think it matters, to be honest. You can have a military mindset whether or not you've been in. It depends upon extraneous factors, such as; how you were raised, your mental health, your history as a person, etc.
Not to mention, this dude should have been sent back to a desk job after all the internal affairs investigations and slaps on the wrist.
By
Anonymous, at 2:29 PM
1. Judging the Police
In an average day a patrol officer is forced to make more judgment calls than just about any other profession I can think of. Most of these decisions have to be made quickly, with only the (limited) available information at hand, without the benefit of time to reflect, and with the ever present (and real) fear of violent retaliation. Consequently, the only fair way to judge an officer’s actions is to evaluate those actions against the totality of the circumstances as they were known to the officer at the time he acted. If an officer does the “wrong” thing when, given the events as they unfolded at the time, they would appear to a reasonable individual be the “right” thing, I don’t think that officer should be held personally responsible in civil or criminal proceedings. If an officer does the “wrong” thing when he knows it to be the “wrong” thing I think he should be held accountable.
2. Policing the Police
Who does it? Who doesn’t do it? The actions of law enforcement officers are watched more carefully than most other professions: the population they police does it (ex. The Rodney King video), the media does it (ex. The article you linked to your post), the people they arrest do it (ex. Civil suits brought against officers), their own departments do it (ex. Dashboard cameras on patrol cars), etc. Is this wrong? No. I think its fair for everyone to expect that people that have been given authority don’t abuse that authority. Still, I think that a responsible public has to ask themselves if they are seeing the whole picture when confronted with, for example, a video clip showing an officer using force against a suspect.
There is a great chapter in Malcolm Gladwell’s, Blink that deals the events surrounding the shooting of an unarmed man by police in New York. The narrative walks the reader through the events as they unfolded to the officers at the time. It’s a great illustration of how a situation that may appear open-and-closed on its face can reveal itself to be far more complicated once all the blanks are filled in.
3. The Military and Law Enforcement
Law Enforcement agencies are paramilitary organizations so I wouldn’t be surprised to hear that you have a high percentage of ex-military personnel in LE, though I don’t know the figures for sure. I’m not exactly sure what the “yahoo cowboy” mentality is, but if you’re asking whether or not a “shoot first and ask questions later” approach is appropriate in law enforcement the answer in no. Also, it’s not tolerated.
While this next tidbit doesn’t directly relate to your question you may find it interesting nonetheless. I don’t know the source, but I remember reading that, after reviewing dashboard videotapes taken from the cars of officers killed in the field, it was judged that one of the biggest reasons they died was that they made the decision to respond with force too late.
4. Miscellanea
A. Officer Rolon said: “When any law enforcement officer tells you to do something or not to do something, you do exactly what you're told”.
While I’m not going to comment on the handcuffing incident, I’ll say something about this quote: I don’t see this as an example that “those in power are brainwashed into thinking that they are more important than other citizens and that they are above the laws they enforce.” If a police officer tells you to do something that is reasonably within the scope of his authority, just do it. You are only making more problems for yourself if you don’t.
B. Terry wrote: “Cops suck, but I'm glad they are around when the weak need them.”
I imagine that this is how most people feel about the police. Everyone hates cops… until they need them for something. Then they like them until the next time they get pulled over, at which point they hate them again.
C. Oruga wrote: “I would say that policemen in general are not distinguished by noble manners and high culture of converse since they are trained to deal with criminals.”
A bit smarmy perhaps, but I think you have a point. The cliché, “You can catch more files with honey that vinegar,” usually doesn’t apply to a field interview. In that situation honey usually just gets you lied to. Sadly, being a dick gets results.
That is all.
- mdbm
By
D a n i e l, at 7:27 PM
I use to date a girl who was a police chiefs secretary and I got to know a lot of the officers and most were very nice guys of course in any group of people you are going to have your assholes and idiots and those who don't act like a reasonable cop would in a given situation...but that extends to all facets of life, regular people act unreasonable all the the time and good thing otherwise lawyers wouldn't have a lot of work if there were no negligence in the world...also its good to date the chiefs secretary...gets you out of tickets...but back to the police when I was a resident assistant at arizona state university I had the pleasure of policing the residence halls and you make a lot of quick judgement calls and generally when you ask someone to "empty that beer your drinkinig in the hall" you expect them to empty that beer and if they didn't well you wrote them up...well that was my style...some just gave an automatic write up...but if they didn't follow through with the request and became an asshole it makes the job a lot harder...and since you live in the same building as these people its a balancing act because you don't want to be an asshole back. So I give the police some slack...they have a tough job...and for the most part are just doing their job...and just with being a resident assistant we had a couple of real assholes who were on power trips and a few who didn't care...whats worse? And the police I worked with their were nice guys and gals too. And we were policed by resident complaints...I got one complaint against me that was found to be frivolous...can't be loud during finals week and if you are I will write you up especially if Im getting called every hour b/c you are being loud...but I digress...
My experience that a good minority were ex military and that does creep into their mindset...
I think the media does a fine job of policing the police and they tend to sensationalize events and lets not forget lawyers...great publicity in suing the police...so they will always be around looking for people whos rights were violted by the police...and I think they do a fine job with that..
By
Anonymous, at 11:23 PM
Points scored
Good points I hear some yes... (In Yoda style)
Law Enforcement have a difficult job which involves making difficult decisions, and furthermore face the scrutiny of the media, lawyers, and desk jockeys such as we (Dan being the exception). I respect the good cops out there; they work hard and put their lives at risk everyday for little pay, much less thanks by society.
I agree that there is a minority of power-hungry bullies who get off on telling others what to do and beating some ass, however, I would hope they are greatly outnumbered by those who are just performing a tough job and trying to live the mantra of "protect and serve".
I for one, could never be in law enforcement. I could not enforce laws I don't agree with, ignore the contextual and social influences on behavior, nor be willing to risk my life to enforce those laws. The only area of level of law enforcement I could apply my training in would be selection; creating psych, knowledge, situational tests, and interviews to attempt to help select betteer quality applicants for law enforcement positions. My hat's off to those who choose the profession, because there's no way I'd want to do it.
In regards to "noble manner", I suppose when you're dealing with degenerates and monkeys who lie, cheat and steal on a daily basis, it's hard to take the armor off and have a simple puppy dog and ice cream conversation.
By
Don the "Head Chimp", at 8:25 AM
I think that the "better" people out number the assholes in the upper tiers of law enforcement I.E Detectives, FBI, Customs etc. However I would be suprised to find out that the "better" people outweigh the asshole in the beat cop arena. I think Lakewood Colorado is the only district that requires a college degree to become a cop and they still are assholes. Example: Terry has a party, Terry and friends get roudy, Cops called by bitch neighbor, Cop says I'm coming around back to check ID's Terry says "Do you have a warrant?" Cop says "We can go back their together or I can cuff you and drag you back there." Terry says "So you believe there is a felony in progress?" Cop looks as though he has been caught. Then decides to cuff me anyway. Terry says nothing other than "Am I under arrest?" Cop then takes off cuffs and assigns noise violation. Cop lies in court and says I didn't ask to see a warrant. Judge says "why didn't you bring any witnesses to this affect, Terry says "because I'm an idiot and should have realized that is what this officer would do." Terry is fined the full amount. Perhaps I bring this on myself by trying to over power a man (0r people) not in the mood. However I know my rights and my rights are there to protect me. At least they were - Stupid patriot act.
By
Anonymous, at 11:07 AM
I think that Don is one of the bad seeds. That is why he thinks so much about seeds and which ones are bad and good. Because he is one of the bad seeds and that is what bad seeds think, that they are one of the good ones and other people are in the wrong all of the time.
By
Anonymous, at 11:33 AM
Plus another thing is that Don excepts expensive gifts, ones that he doesn't ever plan to repay. From ladies.
By
Anonymous, at 11:34 AM
Not all cowboys are yay-hoos like Don says. Sometimes a person can be in the military and still be a good person who doesn't try to be a yay-hoo at all. Sometimes they are so nice that people write songs called, "Where are all the Cowboys now?" and they miss them. Because lots of them served and protected the country during lawless times before there were many people.
By
Anonymous, at 12:17 PM
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